[wiki-standards] Comments on Dirk's "simplest process..."

Filippo Salustri salustri at ryerson.ca
Sat Dec 31 00:39:57 CET 2005


Dirk,

I agree that getting something out quickly, the tires of which can be 
kicked by everyone is preferable to drowning in process.

I meant to record requirements, not so much as a strict, 
creativity-stifling bureaucratic exercise.  I get enough of that at 
work. :-)  I meant it more in terms of preserving a record of what we 
think.  I'm a firm believer in the importance of articulation to refine 
and deepen what we think.  Like the saying goes, the best way to learn a 
subject is to have to teach it; that's because you *really* have to 
attain a deep understanding in order to explain it well.  By documenting 
  things as we go, we'd be using articulating our own thinking to 
clarify it to ourselves.  And that should help get better 'standards'.

In any event, it's just a suggestion from my own experiences which may 
not be appropriate for this group.

In terms of your offer of starting to work on some topic of interest to 
me, I'll certainly think about it.  I won't take on something I cannot 
'champion' sufficiently well - and that means time.  Dunno how much of 
that I will have (I teach 200 1st year students this coming semester).

Still, I do promise to keep my eyes on wikisym.org and will do whatever 
I can.

Cheers.
Fil

Dirk Riehle wrote:
> Hi Filippo, and welcome!
> 
> I think at this point of time actual work should take precedence over 
> process.
> 
> I'd be willing to support to put up any standards proposal right away 
> for immediate discussion and vote, if someone provided a spec and wanted 
> to push it through. Without prior requirements gathering, call for 
> participation, etc.
> 
> Please note that I'm not advising such a procedure: A person to do that 
> would be in for something as either people will come up with all kinds 
> of objections (to avoid those we should have had the process in the 
> first place) or people won't comment and probably then flat out ignore 
> the proposed standard.
> 
> My reasoning is that it is better to have a spec 1.0 that people try to 
> put into code, and then a subsequent spec 2.0 that fixes all the 
> problems than to have no spec at all.
> 
> Now, you can actually lead the way. If you have a topic that is 
> important to you, why don't you propose to work on that? You can 
> implement the standards work in a way you want, and we are most 
> certainly going to comment on that in good spirit, thereby refining the 
> process until we agree on it.
> 
> Since not much has happened since we had the last energy boost at 
> WikiSym 2005, I'd support you in picking a topic you like. If someone 
> else is also interested, they are likely to step up then. This mailing 
> list has been growing nicely.
> 
> Dirk
> 
> 
> Dr. Dirk Riehle | Bayave Software GmbH | http://www.bayave.de
> Contact: dirk at riehle.org | +49 172 184 8755 | http://www.riehle.org
> Interested in wiki research? Please see http://www.wikisym.org!
> 
> 
> At 28.12.2005, Filippo A. Salustri wrote:
> 
>> Oops.  Forgot to add:
>>
>> Insofar as I am able to, I would be happy to help with anything I 
>> suggest.  That is, I'll put my money where my mouth is. :-)
>>
>> Cheers.
>> Fil
>>
>> Ward Cunningham wrote:
>>
>>> On Dec 28, 2005, at 8:25 AM, Filippo A. Salustri wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I also think it would be important to proactively seek out the
>>>> opinions, wishes, and needs of wiki users who are not programmers  
>>>> or involved with the administration and upkeep of their wikis.
>>>>
>>>> I would also suggest that specs should include a "lay person's"
>>>> summary that can be shown to the user community to get their  
>>>> feedback as well.
>>>
>>>
>>> Filippo -- I encourage you do to this on our behalf. But, please  
>>> don't suggest a process that squashes the creativity of the wiki  
>>> community under a pile of righteous "oughts". Wiki has flourished at  
>>> the hands of users who could figure out how to exploit capabilities  
>>> that they never dreamed they could have. We recognize them by the  
>>> quality of the pages they write. Best regards. -- Ward
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Prof. Filippo A. Salustri, Ph.D., P.Eng.
>> Department of Mechanical and Industrial Engineering
>> Ryerson University                         Tel: 416/979-5000 x7749
>> 350 Victoria St.                           Fax: 416/979-5265
>> Toronto, ON                                email: salustri at ryerson.ca
>> M5B 2K3  Canada                            http://deseng.ryerson.ca/~fil/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> wiki-standards mailing list
>> wiki-standards at wikisym.org
>> http://www.wikisym.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/wiki-standards
> 
> 

-- 
Filippo A. Salustri, Ph.D., P.Eng.
Department of Mechanical and Industrial Engineering
Ryerson University
350 Victoria St, Toronto, ON, M5B 2K3, Canada
Tel: 416/979-5000 ext 7749
Fax: 416/979-5265
Email: salustri at ryerson.ca
http://deed.ryerson.ca/~fil/



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