The Conference Wiki of the 2005 International Symposium on Wikis
[ start | index ]
start > WikiVanning

WikiVanning

Created by BrandonCsSanders. Last edited by MarkDilley, one year and 149 days ago. Viewed 2,316 times. #32
[edit] [rdf]
labels
attachments
WikiVanning1 (70742)
WikiVanning1.jpg (70742)
WikiVanning2 (71379)
WikiVanning2.jpg (71379)
>>http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?WikiVanning

Friday 2005.10.14 MarkDilley, BrandonCsSanders, LionKimbro and TedErnst from Portland, OR to Oakland, CA Saturday 2005.10.15 JohnAbbe joins for trip from Oakland to San Diego 10.16-18 conference, Thursday 2005.10.20 Group picks up EthanMcCutchen and LewisHoffman and leaves John in West Oakland. Extensive (incomplete) notes below.

WikiVanning1

WikiVanning2

NOTES FROM 2005.10.14

NEIGHBORHOOD CENTERS ===========================================================

  • ex: Community Boating
    • resources for experts to teach
    • teenage staff
    • mutual teaching
  • ex: Bike shop
  • collect fees from members to pay for situation
  • Mark Dilley: How do you handle conflict?
  • Mark Dilley: Community High School
    • Anybody can teach a class about anything.
    • Ann Arbor Alternative Public school
  • Worker Centers
    • How to have power on the job
  • Brandon: A way to connect with people who aren't online
    • I feel there is a growing divide between online/offliners.
    • Mark: I think they're getting closer.
    • "An activity that is rooted, and that is not rooted." - Ted
    • "Rooted" means located in a place, a neighborhood, a workplace, a school, etc. "Non-rooted" doesn't have such a place. People might gather centrally for the activity, but don't have a common meatspace community otherwise.
    • When full blown in a campaign, not spending time online.- Mark
  • "When you're interested in getting people moved & organized, you aren't interested in online stuff." - Mark
    • "I don't have the time. All my energy is in meatspace."
  • Brandon: people offline fear being left behind, buzz power of those online
  • Mark: "Failure of Tech & Survival of Indian Nations":
    • We need to figure out how to put tech into popular hands.
  • Overcoming fears & stereotypes
  • Assimilate vs. Subsidize
  • Talk-vs-Action vs. Online-vs-Offline
    • But doesn't account for fear & tension
  • "Catcom"
    • "Catalytic Communities" >>http://www.catcomm.org/
    • "Field trips to zoo" instead of "going to bar"
    • "Physical space" - can get to by 1 ride; it's downtown
    • 1 room w computers
    • cookies & tea
    • Accidental meetings
    • web space, community fundraising
    • Community Solutions Database - institutional memory
    • physical space helps people learn to use the system
  • community tools collection
  • Lion: Physical matters, because:...
    • you can see when other people are there
    • you can see how other people manipulate the machinery
    • that's why the Physical is helpful there
    • like Second Life
  • teaching ladders
    • hear, forget. see, remember. do, understand.
    • watch one do one teach one
    • WikiAsYouLearn
  • Community Center can help bridge people into technology
    • not just computers: welding, bikes, etc.,.
    • not just tech: one culture to another culture
    • like travel
    • lowers barriers
Open Topic:
  • Fear of Technology
References:

Brunch at Walnut Street Co-op in Eugene >>http://www.icetree.com/walnut/

Mark: Help tree, leslie with wiki … potlatch wiki … fiction wiki … should have mentioned book review wiki

Spam turns people off wikis

There is so much to turn people off wikis

FailSafe Wiki

Download a tarball

Leslie … union stuff, appreciates union … connection to JohnAbbe WOW … synchronicity

If I choose to know we're all connected … what next?

Ted

fec peach fund … health care coop … all members pay into it … invest savings to loan out to other communities that are trying to get started

theworldcafe.com facilitation technique (tree recommended)

walnut street coop

los angeles eco village … check it out on the way through town ...

intentional community … coops … consensus and how new coops can happen

Lion

polyamory?! … nfnc.org

children and coops - new coops even when no existing model

Brandon

lewis and ethan … dojo AJAX … prototype.js and their work with alonovo that and their desire the standards and protocols track … after the release

Tom Atlee

Michael Dowd >>http://thegreatstory.com … evangelical minister converted to preaching the story of evolution … "the great radiance" … "the universe story" … conscious evolution

The evolutionary salon … meta of the movements

>>http://yoism.org "Opensource Religion" anti-monotheists

brianism.org

subgenius

>>http://co-intelligence.org/ Co-intelligence Institute … cii@igc.org

Assignment for evolutionary salon in january on whidbey island: 250-500 word bio plus a burning question we would bring to the salon

Peggy holman … John Abbe

Possibly meet Tom and Peggy on Friday

Peggy Open Space Guru and Appreciative Inquiry

Appreciative Inquiry

That which is studied grows … you create a new reality by thinking about that problem

Sexual harrasment … if you study it, it will grow … if you study positive gender relationships they will grow

Questioning about what is positive

Don't gloss over the negative, at the same time, focus on the positive, you can ask about the negative in a positive way CW:ThePowerOfQuestions what happens when you ask questions (holistic analysis of what questions do)

Imagine Chicago … what are the problems … but more appropriately, what are your hopes for the future.

EMACS MADNESS

  • how macros work
  • programming power
  • turning web pages into text
  • long term investment
    • divergence: path dependence
    • unions :)
  • I made a joke, and Ted didn't get it. It was about Lion only getting
5 hours of sleep. But we all didn't! HAHAHAHAHA! Why didn't get it? Isn't that funny? BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

  • "I AM… Critical mass." 1 man & 2 dozen cops.

UNION WORK ORGANIZING ONLINE

  • MarkDilley's union wiki
  • "We need a wiki to talk about work."
  • "What are the steps involved in work?"
  • Grocery Store worker
    • Loading trucks learned to drive a high (boat?)
    • loading fruits & vegitables into a 30x30 box
  • "What kinds of skills do I have that I could apply to other jobs?"
  • Career Paths
  • "What's related to what?"
  • Organizing work from union standpoint, work within a whole system.
  • "What am I creating? Who uses it? What's it for?"
  • "What are the tools I need to get into this field?"
  • "What does it ''mean'' to be a game designer?"
  • "How was this stuff made?"
  • "How does an intellectual worker work?"
  • idea is to find a path from person with "low skills" to learn about
how their skills are the same sorts of things that "high skill" people do. (yes?)
  • "even though I'm an electrical engineer, there are parts of my skill
that are the same as other people in different jobs."
  • "What does the programmer page say?"
  • lion: organize communities first, then super-communities would follow
  • lion: wikipedia pages for "programmer," "welder," "electrical
engineer," …
  • Mark Dilley: What are my next steps?
Resources:
  • "How Stuff Works" by Marshall Brain

COOPERATIVES EXPANDING THE MODEL

  • "Why do we have to work for the man? Why can't we BE the man?"
  • lots of little cooperatives
  • food buying coop, artisan coop, housing coop, work coop, credit coops
  • bigger coops look a lot like big business: REI
  • "where do we get economies of scale? meaningful future? passion?"
  • Mark (Unions):
    • many unions modeled on corporate layout, officers
    • "true sense of a union" "cooperatives."
    • "union cooperative" "service union" vs. "organizing union"
      • "service union" : paying for something
      • "organizing union" : learning to self-organize
  • coops require a lot more out of each individual … are we up to it?
  • z-magazine … critical thinking … zmi institute "most realistic idealists I've ever met" Michael Albert … How many people do we need for change? 20-35% we don't necessarily need everyone if we aren't up to it
  • should be able to compete effectively with corporations
IBESI is a research cooperative

Julie's commons … conversation with Laurie and Julie … cooperative vs commons

Lion wet blanket … people want what we got right now … but it is going to take time … the conceptual solutions are easy, but the details take time

Enthusiasm doesn't help

Brandon: getting the right people excited helps provide resources

Lion: Money to start a project often fails … money applied to existing projects can make a huge difference … we're funded we're creating X … doesn't always work (exception ubuntu)

Ted: Not a technical problem … a social problem

Foaf … friend of a friend necessary for 95% of these visions (uptake is small) meta-data and semantic web

integration with tools

The buzz makes lion feel pressure

Allocation doesn't work … how can we allocate funds efficiently via the hive mind

gnome users and gnome devs struggles … there is no efficient communication from the many to the few … the many end up subverting the systems … poor communication pathway

Incompetent and unaware

Bike shed effect … designing a nuclear power plant is easier than a bike shed because no one thinks they are competent (except those who are) to design a npp but everyone thinks they know what color the bike shed should be

The union can become the producer rather than just the labor

Mark wants to overthrow the masters

The wobblies

Monty python "pirates of the skyscrapers sketch"

Mark: who is in charge?

Why can't borders employees create their own bookstore.

why doesn't it happen … what could take those enterprises to the next level

cory doctorow "down and out in the magic kingdom"

conflict is inevitable?

the tribes, how do they organize?

we know there is going to be conflict … how do we build in redundancy

metadata arms race scenario

  • advisor: "gas prices too high" Ted: "gas prices too low"
  • "how do we get to the future safely"
  • cottage industries instead of corporation takeover
    • "seeding more cooperatives"
    • federations, for economies of scale
  • "assimilate or subsidize"
    • "subsidizing this technology" very important
"why don't people make a health club coop?"
  • because it's powered by "people batteries"
  • because it requires the full attention of some person or people
  • because takes too much time for too little value
  • because people don't want to spend there time at meetings for
their health club
  • the people making coops are prioritizing
  • WHEN we can programmatically generate companies and contracts,
we will see these things.
  • transaction cost

MONEY & BANKS

  • interest-free Robinson Crusoe story
  • power of a cooperative = the power of human effort
  • people want to make a health cooperative
    • need money to buy machines and place
    • but what about risk?
    • charge a fee to take care of risk?
  • cooperative made their own loan fund (individual negotiations of loan)
  • semiconductor companies & banks
  • banks provide useful service, but disproportianately powerful?
  • we really need computer simulations to argue; this is too much

HUMANIST MOVEMENT

  • traditional humanism: let's make things better in THIS world
  • May 4 1969 "Silo" - gave speech in Andes mountains
    • repressive government
    • only place government would allow to speak
    • perhaps apocraphal, but exist photos
  • "The Healing of Suffering"
  • Eliminating suffering.
  • Organizing in the 1970's against dictatorships in Chile.
  • About NOT taking positions on belief. (Freedom of belief.)
  • "World where human is the central value."
  • How do you make a universal nation?
    • Personal & Social change
    • Not satisfied with bandaids.
    • Connection between the personal and the social.
    • They don't make sense without each other.
  • Organize in teams.
    • Teams w/in teams
    • Developing seeing self in each other, working through problems with
each other, etc., etc.,.
    • Teams organize around an issue of concern.
      • "Camaroon" school started - 400 pupils
      • Parents were volunteer teachers
      • Volunteer health clinic, subsidized health clinic
    • No central office, no registered organization
  • 5 level pyramid
  • Silo left. "I'm done."
  • 250 autonomous councils - 10 retired
  • "The Assembly of the Collegiate"
  • Not coordinating, but sharing experiences, talking, etc.,.
  • (leo: very similar to how IETF, ISOC work)
  • US: $100/x2/year, Africa: $2/x2/year, … (weekly meetings)
  • ex: In Scotland, artist went door to door drawing people.
    • Showed all the art at the community fair.
  • ex: 10cents/person - bought sugar
  • service oriented; not made to be "inward" looking
  • "humanitarianism" giving from on high, "humanism" - sharing
  • "humanize the earth" want to be everywhere
    • book, 12 principles of valid actions
    • descriptive, not overtly prescriptive
    • "seeing" other people seeing the best in other people
    • "The Force"
    • build trust in people in their own experience
  • "Action Fronts" legalized organizations within a particular place
    • used to interface with other organizations
    • ''not'' controlled by the humanist movement
    • 3 organisms: humanist (political) party, humanist (???) of
cultures, humanist community development
    • humanist community development "humanist psychology," images,
self-work
  • concerns: "cult of personality?"
    • silo removes self from org
    • "negating the expert" organization
  • organized ~100,000 >> "retired"
  • "orienter": person who convenes the team
  • "rooted": a team in a location proximity
  • "non-rooted": over the Internet; all over the place
  • Ted: 8 years in Humanist Movement
    • Orienter in Chicago
    • 1,000 people? the Liberians
    • team ~12 people
    • organized 1,000
    • farm project, molded & sold bricks
    • $350, $1000 to 3
    • 1 team stole, 1 team did something different, 1 team did right
    • yikes!
  • bank - $2 contrib, then loans out
    • "if we put in X, then..." ...false promises
    • money lost
    • Africa development appeared to be fast
    • Zambia, Liberia, Gana
  • 500 in US, a million in the world?
  • "I'm here to humanize my personal relationships."
  • Ted much more active in US; Weekly meeting in house in US,
conference calls.
  • Introspection into concepts, not so much organization.
    • Now focusing on teaching ideas, not so much the org.
    • "How much energy can I give to people not building movement?"
    • "orientation": direction, leadership, explanation, advice,
experience
    • "receiving orientation from multiple places": realized receiving
direction from multiple sources
    • network rather than structure
    • feeling conflict; can fulfill goals of movement without furthering
the organization itself
  • Mentors
    • "They're looking up to ''me?'' We're doomed!"
    • Forming housing coop.
References:
  • "Humanize the Earth" w/ "12 principles of valid action"
== CommunityWiki ==
  • Ideas felt very natural
  • "So, I belong here, belong to this community"
  • But: "Group of people hanging out at recess"
== Ethics of the Ladder ==
  • "How much of your time should be spent pulling people up?"
  • RadicalInclusion
  • SwitchWiki "we ''want'' people; we don't want to just shut the walls"
  • Tutorial "before you post, make sure you understand these 10 things"
  • larger organization larger obligation to help tutorial
  • wikilandia have to help people "getting in"
  • stepped rituals
  • social game of development
  • NOMIC!
  • ideas moving from world to core
    • reputation economy?
    • police on wikipedia, preserving low barrier to entry
    • "how does somebody new get into it, and get into the further place?"
  • 10 wikipedias?
    • why?
    • POV
  • How Whuffie Works
    • measurements of esteem
References:
  • Whuffie "Down & Out in the Magic Kingdom"
wiki farms, glossaries, organization/systematize

== WikiNodes ==

  • Three parts: Introduction, Key Pages, Related Wiki
  • WikiNode links WikiNode (like TourBus)
  • Implications:
    • A person who makes a wiki grafts it into the network.
    • When a new wiki is formed, related wiki ''learn about'' the new wiki.
    • You can quickly canvas what sorts of wiki exist that are related to
the wiki.
    • WikiNode controlled by the wiki.
    • Self-Organized
    • "An edit is an '''efficient suggestion.'''"
  • (MachineCodeBlocks or WikiFormat) & WikiNode beginning of the
ProjectSpaceNetworks
  • Spider
== Machine Code Blocks ==
  • blah blah blah blah blah
== Switch Wiki ==
  • list of wiki
  • public, open
  • David Cary, Trislin Shandy, … (people add their wiki)
  • alphabetical wiki in a list
  • a page per wiki
  • tag page for content
  • want 15 people, post about a wiki they have used, ...
  • One Big Wiki
  • guide through wikilandia?
  • dream:
    • place to learn about new wiki
    • registry
    • wikispam, mutual support
7Feb06 - switchwiki has morphed into >>http://WikiIndex.com

== Phrase Annotation ==

  • "just-in-time context" "phrase annotations"
  • use MCB's to identify phrases that should lead to the page
  • firefox plugin
  • annotation source URL (the URL of the wiki page that describes the
wiki, and summarizes the wiki, points to the master page list, etc.,.)
  • phrase (the phrases that are marked by )
  • phrase target (the wiki page that had the phrase on there)
  • how handle overlaps?
    • maybe just put stars next to things you have something to say about
== Shared Mind Messaging ==
  • Eye tracker, and do some task.
  • Picture book w camera.
    • 1. Describe book with camera looking over shoulder.
    • 2. Headmounted camera, find where their attention is.
    • 3. Cursor overlaying where their eye is looking.
  • Describing book in another language
  • Videos by different views
  • 1st time: "I'm not getting anything from this"
  • 2nd time: "I got the word for duck."
  • 3rd time: "I understood words for 9 different animals."
  • "I still remember them now."
  • "The sounds of the words were tied to the picture of the duck."
  • "I shared the mind of the person to a small degree."
  • "I could see where their attention was."
  • "People who saw my camera got it x9 better."
  • "Riding the mind of an expert."
  • "When they are problem solving what are they checking?"
  • "Things they know, but they don't even consciously know that they
know it."
  • "Oh yeah, look here at the rear hub..."
    • But they don't tell you what a hub is,
    • what part of the hub they're looking at,
    • etc., etc.,.
  • "You don't need a pedagogy- a theory of teaching."
== Wiki Weblog ==
  • Mark Dilley: Into wiki, low entrance.
  • "I like the organization of wiki. How does that carry over to a weblog?"
  • Weblogs miss community...
  • "How to use the way wiki are organized, but in a weblog structure?"
  • ThreadMode: "In a wiki, we can just boil this away..."
  • A baby step towards understanding of wiki.
  • RecentChanges, self-organization, ...
  • Using RSS to follow different streams in wiki
  • "I set up a front page blog. I set up a recent changes."
  • DEFERRED.
250-580

NOTES FROM 2005.10.14

1:45pm Ted Ernst suggests we begin

do we have enough gas? 1/4 tank, will need gas at some point - last banana, chaos ensues...

Traditional opening Yeehah

Checking in:

Ted - yesterday was longest most intense day of open space, ocean on our right, awesome

Brandon - ready to do rocks

Lion welcomes John

Mark - impressed, pink in hair

John - thumbs up

== IBESI == research cooperative

what is the option for tech-phobic people?

assimilation - they learn about tech (this is what IBESI is about)

subsist/subsidize - eg human acts as intermediary

CATCOMM

to bring wealth to the middle class Martin Pfahler collecting ppl from big name mainstream folks for three years no techies before Brandon @Omidyar - it's a connection between 'us' and pointy-heads, who want us

stated goals of institute is to up the magic pump to improve life for everyone for the middle class (bloodless revolution - might emphasisze one or the other first with different people

IBESI - projects listed, ppl (initially) volunteer their work to make the project go, so that they can get an income

Lion - Manna - Martial Brain Robotic Nation - tracks jobs replaceable with robots, many jobs need transition in the next 40 years, no workable plans for new jobs.

Unnecessarily centralized? ("everyone on subject X will come to us")

Brandon - centralized/decentralized-okay, people involved open to free/open

Goal is to get "regular people" to come, very experimental focus

WikiNode - intro, key pages, related wikis / Project Space Network Semantic Web/Web 2.0/WWP etc. - project pieces and their dependencies

Brandon offering to be go-between

pointy-heads looking for a techie brain trust to try some things out in this space of bringing projects together

Lion wants them to see the pieces already being implemented/imagined - here's what we're working on

we can find/generate our own collective voice to engage them with

(one part of) voice is map of tasks, w dependencies

>>http://fundable.org

== FOAF == lions notes plus

a lot of project people talk about use mini projects, rdf,xml complaints, only ones that have traction, sucks less.

dev looks at rdf, bloated. theoreical human readable. ugly, but it is what is being used.

enables single sign on, identity commons. once you have security here is how you can identify and explain yourself.

reputation networks - all based on sematics network.

main cahallenges, applications - chicken and the egg problem. ppl notwilingto make foaf pages because no apps. no apps because not enought peopletous it.

no public editors for a foaf page. need a site to generate and host the pages

easy things doens't mean can do quickly - couple of months.

where to host? simply a url. where ever. how can ppl find foaf files.

foaf.rdf somewhere.

Need a foaf browser. if a lot of peoplehave this data, apps can be created that are powerful.

idea of taking a social network and turning it inside out. not proprietary or centralized. personal data controled by each person. easy to edit. easy to control.

here is: blog here is flick stream here is delicious here is my xxxxxx

References: TRIBE - ERIK BENSON

Erik Benson streamed all his streams (Activity Awareness) personal aggregation.

Over Hear - public activity awareness.

FOAF can help and needs application - use IBESTI

Major apps, normal people can maintain theirs - a browser - not web based. client sideor on the web, a stable browser that aggregates the info.

Wiki nodes is prototype of project space network is prototype of organization - organized online work of online organization. A live updated guide to projects. vision imprintof hive mind. see all people and all organizations. major leap, these mailing list. these projects.

Foaf is a data format homepage,loaction,contact,interests public specifications don't publish private data unless protected by password. privacy public protected

my front lawn, on my porch, my living room, my bedroom, my safe.

IntimacyGradience

do the simplest thing that works

browser, editor, other apps.

IBESTI can use foaf as a catalyst. egg and chicken together.

FOAF for government

peace groups - activist groups activst groups.

Self identify for self organizing. addressing system for people and organizations

open friendster thing.

usurping the homepage.

like a homepage for machines.

semantic wikipedia -

Web of trust, networks of people who vouch for their people. i belong to community wiki and can prove it, who vouches for me,

if the people don't have the technology they will be afraid of it and make laws to make it illegal.

google cached the network before it was illegal to do it. google is too late on books. but we got the web.

technoligists can race to prove their worth law. The lindens in second life, how to handle online money. alternative currency has to be pegged to the dollar. but it will just be an automated black market.

public private - people are concerned that everything will be public. it won't. it is important for everybody to be able to have secrets.

culture evovles so public is standard and private is sketchy.

we need to be a forgivable society.

walled society

afro futurism - long history of movies.

Identity and Security

Standard language documents

  • Social Sifting -

== Sol Seed ==

  • open source religion
founded it while Brandon was searching for religion/spirituality.

Sol - where everything comes from.

Seed - implies a future -

feels like a really positive narrative that it can draw on, we all come to the same ethics and values, it doesn't matter which god is god.

stopped calling it a religion because it turns off ppl who have a religion and people who don't need a religion.

philosophical body of all life, found to be uniformly well received, we are all people of the body of life.

software in your mind, 3 classes

disintegrated, holistic, ecological

integrated see us all as deeply connected - we are the face of evolution.

most of the world for most of history has been in disintergrated mindset, my body ends here that is where I

JA I imagine that people for most of thier lives as very integrated in their larger tribes. socialness - this story doesn't rely on this stuff.

ecological, systemic, poetic reasoning, an new age syncretist, is a holistic, great conncetion to life plants hearth

systemic person sees liek a scientist

common - integrated view of life. disintegrated - me, my family against the world (sometimes true) aliented from nature, or people. I am not the other.

disintegrated leads fear. causality leads both ways.

circle of empathy is whole, unconditional positive regard - carl rodges

important for people to protect their-selves.

3 atributes of views of people:

passion - self love my flesh jst naturally loves. that is how evolution works

self love is motive, empathy is transcendent, without, self love is possibly evil. wisdom - is effective - feeble and capricious.

this is open source, so can be changed.

Brandon created this so his mom and him can see core values. Simplest way to help.

InterReligionMarkupLanguage

Lot of people in a lot of religions would be open with. 2 things - a local group - how to connect to other people with different spiritual perspective. Neighborhood center - work are good to do.

corprate part, we belivethat the destiny of sol seed to take root in the stars. life is a real cool thing.

ref: octavia butler, byron katie,

I am having two issues - centralized vs self organized - opposite of how I am feeling about wiki.

Don't transcend without your friends.

Can you enlighten before everyone enlightened.

sort of spiritual practice. all humans agree over these issues.

daughter - can't find organization that help teach her this stuff. how to communicate this stuff. incredible depth in much of the worlds religions groups...

method / no method

make a glue religion.

silo's message - people want to work with this. message is like the essence of religion, ceremonies as in humanist movement. completely decentralized, self organized. inner religion. people are all over.

More integrated mindsets. part of related goals.

reaching out to people who think differently who want to connect. and howtoreach out to differently minded people.

nvc is good for second question. how to connect to people who aren't even wanting to connect. spiritualist but not religious, they are networking saying we have values, believe in spirit and tolerance are need to build political power and build bridges.

bishop sprig reference. doesn't believe in god. but is a cultural christian. lot of essence. anglicans for america

enlightenment is relative.... one day, temporary enlightenment. sharing the it wears off and having it to explains it.

didn't start from a holistic but have reached it. decided to let it drop, but will do it all.

social physco spiritual experience, thinking about what is spiritual.

Google for Yoism

== WikiWeblogPIM ==

(aka wwp)

John's label for an inquiry. Also see >>http://ourpla.net/john/wikiweblogpim.html

late 80s/early 90s maintained a database and got into deep thinking about them, integration among multiple databases, where/when you want that data available. TinyMUDs. Generally more intertwingliness, more use of structure, more graceful handling of non-structure.

So messed up that you cannot get someone's phone number on the computer via their name. much richer interlinking of personal information is possible. Early versions of Palm OS pursued this.

Imagine three blind geeks have their hands on the elephant we're talking about.

Three lesser geeks might say they had their hand on a wiki, a weblog, or a pim

Three greater geeks might say they had their hand on a file system, object-oriented database, or an integrated development environment (it's about giving users more programmer power too)

mid-late 1990s - faq-o-matic, wiki, and weblog.

used to think in terms of one great program - not about that, but specs (e.g. WikiStandards for InterWiki) that many different programs use

using PikiePikie - wiki that has weblog on any page. also still using my old database for my contacts. And plain text file for my calendar.

(end John's intro)

svg is going to open the door.

data integration, introspection,

physical machine, that can be synched. private, public things. weblog is

delayed posting would be good for wiki weblog that has

it is a userinterfaceprobem, I want to have forum on top of awiki

things you have writing that has no made changes.

zigzag - Ted Nelson data structure of intersecting streams (feeds) of data

CyberneticRoadmap - This is what we will call the map we'll make at the conference, of all the steps in the (several) big visions we're all working on - OneBigSoup (see notes below), WikiWeblogPim, etc.

Brandon's collaborative editor - CoTor in AJAX potentially life-time history (graph) eg every keystroke date-stamped downloaded server that you can access your docs on auto-synching whenever on-line

Lion - interwiki gateway has markup drivers Gobby protocol?

Darks style of version control - doesn't treat one branch as canonical

Unison - synchronization thing, cross-platform

same ppl working on Harmony - synchronization of tree-structured data (eg a page)

1) one client is server to others - naive ordering Gobby SEE (? they claim method 2) MoonEdit

2) p2p - halves latency (Real-time collaborative editing in ~ ~ environments)

3) palimpsest - each character is marked with who wrote it

== OneBigSoup ==

Response to everything should wiki CommunityTiedToTechnology

IRC 1/2 to negotiate the whiteboard channel

technology is disconnected

Specific question of architecture

plog … personal log … my comments etc … recent changes … delicious tag

lead to event system

ding ding … hoards of event systems

jabber is a very good event system (perhaps the event system)

open good, but not ideal (latencies)

polls, scrapers, eventually pushes

push worries … dos, spam, etc

the sum is greater than the parts … the part is greater than its role in the whole

what are the atoms?

log … event point … needs a server this is component

component distribution system that is open secure trusted inclusive

capabilities based

safe server

throttleable

caged process ...

living event log that you can subscribe to

might be jabber server jep-0060???

concerns about loops

LocalNames … keeping track of namespaces symbols2urls interwiki NearLinks

text datastore (page database)

group interface ...e.g., RecentChanges

cohesion on group interface … something in common … shared context

I thought I was playing poker with 4 alpha centaurians … but you thought you were joisting

group forming … because I know where it is going to appear

planetuni*on: how to build planets … go to planetplanet.org

group interface server

a cohesive group should have great control over what their interface point should look like

socially editable interface

individually tailorable

>>http://ning.com/ mark andreeson … social network service construction kit

at the human level its about reducing our technology

tag a creation with where it should show up … my blog, cw, meatball ...

the comments on the creation are all accessible to all the communities but not mandatory

the document knows all the places it was commented on … and the places that saw it

GAMES & MOVIES

  • Crash, race, LA
  • Blind black guy who's a white supremacist Dave Schapell Show
  • Metal Gear deep philosophy in video games
  • violence in games
  • trends: approach to violence
  • romantacize history, "no violence in the past"
  • cycles of guilt & violence, cycles of "why violence is right, not right"
  • Lion violence & pornography we need to understand, consider, make decisions ourselves wouldn't live w/o either
  • paint ball @ Earth Day Mark feels some guilt
  • Ted LOVED paint ball! adrenaline
  • Brandon: "could never be a rainbow type"
  • "in my shows, people get shot"
  • Sin City Mark hated, Lion & John loved - John "visually most comic book movie"
  • Brandon's image: Halloween story - if you don't believe in, okay, ...
  • fox & rabbit - "is playing with matches an essential part of humanity?"
  • backgammon - variety of user interface, long range score
  • poker (& day trading)
  • John - "games" - simulation & competition
  • _Finite & Infinite Games_ - James P. Carse - "There is only one infinite game."
  • Nomicron particular Nomic game - win by paradox, 1 wins by discovering loophole
  • "Spirit of the game" clause
  • Gradual solidification of the game
  • Pressuring BayleShanks (''hi Bayle!'')
  • The OpenSpace Invasion
  • OpenSpace overlay on top of WikiSym
  • Green Tortoise - >>http://www.greentortoise.com/
  • Hive Mind will be continuous and all the time
  • "retreat?" … "advance."
to be continued

SLEEEEEEEP

book - Philip Pullman - The Golden Compass

== pre-Open Space conspiracy meeting ==

we have some materials, are buying more for Open Space and Cybernetic Roadmap

todos:

research printing "ask me about Open Space" & name tags find one-page Open Space Google "giving conference" for proceedings template (in OpenSpace, proceedings template has what you document abt the session - who came, what was the topic, key points, next steps agreed to)

today, we'll go and get a sense for the reality of the conference as it's going on

some of our likely sessions: CyberneticRoadmap IBESI

Woah, I think it would take a lot of time for one of you to just go through this list and summarize/explain it :) - Bayle Shanks

============================================================ NEXT STEPS 1:46 PM 2005-10-19 ============================================================ Things to watch:

  • Chandler, Ted Leung, Mitch Kapor, OSAF, Python
BRANDON'S NEXT STEPS ========================================
  1. organizing RecentChanges
  • publicity for wiki
  • IBESI PRESENCE
  • Hans Wobb
  • Portland-ians Ray King, John Stanton, Ward Cunningham, ..; Weekly meeting
    • Johnson Lenz, Peter Trudy, awakeningtechnologies.com
  • Wiki for organizing RecentChanges up quickly
  • Dates & Place & Invitations RIGHT AWAY
  • Wiki up right away
  • "How do we get the process artists to come?"
2. CoTor
  • solicit help or just go ahead and work on integrating pieces that are out there?
  • how long to keep it just the two of us or open up to many?
  • as soon as two people can collaboratively edit a document it needs to be released
  • focus on having a server that handles the AJAX server end
  • don't worry about bold, italic, etc - just handle text
  • no chat
  • make technique clear
  • need a client, AJAX Javascript end - issue insert/delete commands to server XMLHTP request
  • issue a patch from sever to document
  • addressing system so can say what characters inserted/deleted
  • server does the integration
  • need to create the graph right away, otherwise just same as gobby or synchroedit (maybe?)
  1. document technique so it's clear to self and others (one page) - not about cleverness or state of the art
  • most important is speed to release
  • do not over design - avoid analysis paralysis - don't make it super crappy
2. work on server and client ends at the same time
  • need to support at least 10 people and identify them (by color)
  • Get Cybernetic Roadmap up
  • Paper for next WikiSym up w/ Max
  • Look at Bayle's WikiGateway
  • Ted & Brandon & Bayle & Inter-wiki transfer tech
  • e-mail server running
  • Sunir Jan 14, 18, on west coast?
WIKI >>http://recentchanges.org/ RECENT CHANGES CAMP ======================================== (PRIOR CONVERSATION AT WIKISYM)
  • attendants: helmut ward eugene sunir ward lion ted beat-doebli
  • People need places to stay
  • FooCamp style: camp out
  • camping in Portland
  • February 2006? April 2006?
  • invite Wikipedia people, invite OOPSLA guys (Dirk,)
  • Portland Japanese garden? But probably not a conference garden...
  • OpenSpace requires lots of spaces
  • Portland OSDL, Intel, get as a sponsor
  • get a wiki up as soon as possible
  • place, date
  • crunch
  • GOOD CONVERSATION WITH DIRK before crunch
  • Position as _a big meetup._
  • !Promote WikiSym! !Promote WikiMania!
  • check WikiMania conference planning stuff, wiki
  • check Omidyar Chicago planning conference stuff
JOHN'S PLANS ========================================
  • De-spam John Abbe's wiki "AbbeNormal" - now
  • Trip to South Asia
  • Not very active until after Evolutionary Salon (Jan 14-20)
  • Sister Sites: may want some help figuring next steps
    • outreach to developers to implement Sister Sites on wiki
  • Stay in touch with Jerry Michalski - programmers working on something
  • Cybernetic Roadmap
  • Process Arts wiki
LION'S PLANS =======================================
  • Get out DNS & BIND and make domain names to restore downed sites
  • restore wiki 1 month
  • seal off & release local names work 1 month
  • wiki format for wiki nodes, & foaf converter 1 month
  • Inkscape plugins for loading to/from wiki, eg SVGwiki
MARK'S PLANS ========================================
  • work for Dave Mason on his faculty union
  • one union option - trust? interface to national? restricted local autonomy
  • test run as state organ izer for a union
  • bookstore chain - no 2nd contract yet (union breaking)
  • wiki stuff
    • working with raymond king on weblog
    • merge SwitchWiki and wiki index
so…
  • lots of good opportunities, how to do that, and wiki?
  • how to deal with the all-consuming nature of some of the options?
  • more about bookstore
(John - union organizing reality tv show)

== TheLawOfTwoEyes ==

TED'S PLANS ========================================

  • add FOAF page - google for foaf project
  • Unison - to synch a wiki onto his laptop and the web
    • maybe on Brandon's server
  • learning ruby and javascript for CoTor
  • Open Space on open space - bring wiki
  • currency stuff - bthree calls of notes - omidyar.net/group/targetedcurrencies
  • RecentChanges (Labor people! Mark)
(Ted wants Mark to meet Dave Koeler Peoria, Illinois - hotbed of open space in midwest)
  • be, be seen as, recognized natonal expert in alternative currencies
~3PM ========================================
  • funding open source - hive allocation
TOPIC CALL (3:51PM) ========================================
  • generations
  • materials
  • virtual institute
VIRTUAL INSTITUTE (3:52 PM) ========================================
  • research & solve problems
  • want to integrate diversity, cross-pollination across disciplines,
languages, jargons
  • want to go from conception to actual trying out
  • ChrisPurcell copyedit/spam/xxx RecentChanges categories
  • "center room" news, planet, blog, cloud, news published of general
  • interest
  • individual groups more news focused
  • John: Think of as sets, not rooms. "Venn diagram" interface.
  • Lawyers & Business people don't want to customize it.
  • Non-lawyers observing different place.
  • Shared vs. Non-shared portions.
  • "What is a Venn Diagram?" (explanation)
  • techies have communities; how can they be part of the institute too?
    • techies visit & do work in institute
    • aggregate RSS feeds from existing communities
  • problem trying to solve: Brandon needs to show that techies are
working on IBESI
    • they need to see that techies are using their money well
    • aggregation of where the techies are working, show progress, show
motion, etc., etc..
    • but audience needs to not be overwealmed
  • Ted: RecentChanges of few items, but regularly changing (updating)
  • "Rooms": Click on a room, and you see the communities rooms
    • Rooms can split
    • RecentChanges on the room
    • Pie menu.
    • Create new rooms as needed
    • (Brandon draws diagrams.)
  • "Where you are" at any one good time.
    • John: I'd like to see multiple places at the same time. ''Toggle.''
  • Handling escalations of news items.
  • This software is for IBESI.
  • "Where does wiki fit into the Virtual Institute?"
  • Transclusion
  • Wiki, blog, integrated, ...
  • Overlays
GENERATIONS (4:27 PM) ======================================== lion talking w seb paquet generations more different than they used to be. they interact less, cultural shifts are happening faster (generations are shorter)

Two Second Lifes - to avoid legal (and real) trouble - can't play on second life with your kid

long tail - niche cultures

MOO (4:35?) ============================= cows

alienation from our food source

urban kids

Lion "farm kids eat meat too"

Mark calls attention to process

there's a difference (w rural kids) what is the difference when you are less mediated from your food source?

does what Lion said shut down what we were talking about?

it is a challenge

======

how to keep the work going and be open and human with new-comers

part of WikiPractices

THE ISLANDS OF COMMUNICATION ========================================

  • Inter-group Dynamics, Inter-group Process: Tavistock, Human Relations
SISTERWIKI (6:32 PM) ==================================================
  • Sister Wiki conversation had with Ward
  • Talked about formats for page list
  • Eugene will start process of drafting spec & handing it out
    • handing out on wikisym mailing list
  • UTF-8 list of page names
  • John wants to do more to get Sister Sites going
  • "What does a developer have to do to turn on Sister Sites?"
    • Export: List of page names
    • Import, regularly, list of pages.
    • List sister sites that have a match.
  • Ward promises to adapt to whatever specifications are all made.
  • Focus points:
    • Get a central server setup
    • Get a developers guide setup, including name canonicalization
  • People liked the idea of using PICA to do this
  • Brandon advocates Concensus Polling for development of the
specification.

ORGANIZED CULTURE (7:15 PM) ==================================================

  • Alternative Names
    • Tribalism
  • The word "Tribes"
    • future dynamic group forming
    • different sizes
    • different degrees of articulation
    • some more person-person networky, some more community
  • Benefits
    • Registry of sleep-overs
    • Do you want to play Tennis?
    • Can you help me with this project?
    • may help people connect, and not go into terrorism
    • more efficient organizing
    • continuous openspace
  • Present
    • we want to implement this
    • we are disconnected
    • "It's going to happen, it is happening."
  • Mark Dilley's friend Chuck / Charles is interested in this
    • disseration on African American men
    • part of a tribe/organized culture that isn't defined
    • universal solidarity
    • Paul Ropeson
      • 1st African American in Yale
      • punished him 1st day on football team
      • they wanted to punish him to see if he had what it takes to be 1st
AA in college sports
      • became a lawyer
      • realized not able to make change alone
      • became a singer, then a movie star (1st world reknown)
      • related to Harry
  • Privacy - Transparent Society - Harmful backfire?
  • Social effects
  • Articulated values
  • Who is a person? How many tribes do they belong to?
    • Alienation? Wanting to be in.
  • So what? We all know.
    • We need something so we can explain it to other people.
    • It's an outcome of the One Big Soup.
  • Why explain it to people?
    • People are just going to experience it.
    • So that they can be primed so that they're prepared.
    • People need to practice forsight. Organized forseight.
      • Lion needs to spend time with Tom.
      • Lion should show Tom the future wiki, where people can learn about
things that are going so that they can be collectively intelligent, talk about the future of technology.
      • Lion should subscribe to his mailing list.
      • Douglass Engelbert.
  • Machines made of groups of people.
  • Artificial Intelligence & merging.
  • Compound beings.
  • Compound becommings.
  • When a couple splits up, or a person dies, … part of brain gone.
  • Newbies, adoption in, ...
  • People are sucked into roles.
  • Newton & Liebonitz come up with Calculus at same time
  • Compout being - neither of those two would come up with it if they
were isolated and a hundred years earlier. Brandon
  • Mark: "I don't want to call groups of human beings machines"
  • John: "To me, compound being is a general term."
  • The force of narrative, makes people behave mechanically.
  • Is "machine" a good term for a group of people?
  • Mark: "I call groups of people machines ''all'' the time."
  • John: Groups of people are ''machine-like.''
  • Brandon: You can have a more or less intelligent machine.
  • Mark: Human civilization is ''now'' machine-like?
  • Brandon: Th ehuman body doesn't have only living constituents.
  • Brandon: Having a nice narrative name for the concept...
  • John: Narratives do NOT lead to mechanical
  • People can have multiple
  • John: When I step from "just an individual to part of a larger thng,
    • Do I lose my free will?
    • You can get more degrees of freedom by joining a group.
  • Mark Dilley: "How do I understand organizing in this context?"
    • It feels good to say "organism," not to say "machine"
Newsbit about Local Names to be posted to RecentChanges wiki blog.

When do people adopt a platform, and when do people go up bit by bit?

Local Names

REST vs (XML-RPC or SOAP)

  • Networked Data is the TRUE VALUE or REST
  • ''requires'' that you ignore the existance of technology
============================================================ WIKI VANNING 12:20 PM 2005-10-20 ============================================================
  • Ted Ernst
  • Ethan McCutchen
  • Lewis Hoffman
  • Brandon Sanders,
  • Lion Kimbro
  • Mark Dilley
COTOR ========================================
  • Brandon's Pieces
    • Wysiwyg
    • Simultaneous Editing
    • Disconnected Editing (not simultaneous)
    • Distributed Serving
    • Interoperability
  • Ethan&Lewis are interested in, but don't understand, DARCs.
  • DARCs model:
    • Every time you make a change, it makes a new node in the graph.
    • "You keep branching out and collapsing back to a single version."
    • Further you go out, likelihood of conflict increases.
    • At a threshold of conflict, it requires human mediation.
    • Trivial bad case: Whole page wiped out, and a whole new document put
in place.
  • apply reputation systems on top?
    • darcs model too ambitious?
    • synchroedit already accomplishes collaborative editing with ajax
    • three tasks
      • document to explain graphs and algorithms of implementation
      • implementation
      • user interface
    • already done:
      • wysiwyg editor (tinymc editor) plugged into edit/save flow
      • wysdown design module, two views: html and wysiwyg
      • using prototype.js for simple dev cases
  • tradeoff between developer time and install
  • first principals of ajax
  • http requests to server
  • client can initiate request and can interpret partial responses
  • server can do neither,
so two-way communication works by hack:
    • server gives long-to-infinite response and client continuously
interprets trickle.
  • DOJO provides wrapper around http requests / ajax api
  • google word completion as an example:
  • entirely client initiated
  • important difference is that important events are occurring in
collaborative editing that client doesn't know about
  • start with user initiated patch send/receive
  • don't use "infinite request" hack for now
  • container node (in dom) for collaborative document
  • synchro-edit keeps track of context (where you are in the dom)
  • spider-monkey for server platform (implement libraries in
javascript)
  • contact synchro-edit folks?
Network of Integrated Consumer Knowledge ========================================

BASIC PITCH:

  • Get consumer info of all sorts represented in a standard format.
  • Learn about: companies buying from, products you are buying,...
  • All in one place, so easy to know about it.
  • See a product, tap into a network of knowledge
  • knowledge: Prices, specs, third party ratings, user reviews
  • also: social responsibility, corporate involvement in politics, labor
fair trade, environment practices
  • to ''know'' what kind of impacts of our shopping
  • diversity of products at grocery stores
  • we need technological help to integrate the knowledge
Mark: "Is FOAF related?"
  • this is a network of public standard data
  • OCKL doesn't exist yet, but will be made based on RDF/XML
  • "What should a nick server support?"
  • NICK is full system, OCKL is the static representation
  • OCKL will work with FOAF (and vice versa) because they work on RDF
  • finding ways to harvest, collect data
Grass Commons is Ethan & Lewis:
  • helping data entry
  • adapting existing databases
  • "NXCI": Nick Extraction Conversion Integration engine
  • data sources? Amazon, proprietary data (KLD, social investigation &
research),
  • getting at data that's proprietary, ...
  • "2nd party data": SEC, FEC, EPA data
  • basics to get clear on:
    • what is the name of the company?
    • what is the name of the product?
Reputation of Source Data:
  • trust specific sources
  • SBRS: "Sustainable Business Rating System"
    • trying to do what other cert programs have done
    • definition of "what is a sustainable business?" metrics,
indicators
    • a way for businesses to know where they are, what they can do
    • B2B community, scoring
    • "you can't fix what you don't measure"
  • what is sustainability?
    • umbrella term
    • social, corpo-politic, environment, fair labor, ...
  • NICK: should feed lots of rating systems
  • "real cost"
    • costs that you pay vs. ...
    • run-off of chemicals, road costs, air costs, ...
    • try to calculate the ''real cost'' automatically
  • NICK is trying to create a feedback system, a ''nerve'', a
responsiveness system
  • SBRS is ''one attempt'' to put this kind of thing together
  • peers of SBRS? academic work, LEED...
  • LEED does certification of a building, ...
    • score: LEED silver, platinum, gold, ...
    • measure: materials, energy efficiency, new technology, ...
    • details may be proprietary and/or hidden, but score is public
  • USGBC leader Christine Ervin, spoke at a conference
    • "will you be doing companies?"
    • they are wondering about it,...
    • rating of a company, ''on the basis of it's buildings''
    • costs 10,000-15,000 to rate a building
  • conflicts of interest in accreditation
  • NICK: feeding data ''into'' these systems
  • "I'll publish my summary score, but not all the little details."
    • "You'll have to pay to get all the little details."
  • NICK is organizing and collecting ontologies
  • NICK is making legal framework for licensing data,...
  • "I want to build an ecommerce website, and want data AS LONG as it
doesn't stop people from buying anything..."
    • legal framework can make it hard to use the data without
participating in norms of the pool
  • make it easy to license the data in the particular form
  • "The way it works in ecommerce.. Sellers with big databases, it's hard
to compete with them because of these big databases."
  • Its hard for anyone to compete with these mass of reviews.
  • about OCKL
    • ways to represent data that can be exchanged
    • a ''family'' of ontologies
    • COMPANIES, BRANDS, and PRODUCTS
    • ockl should represent ''companies,'' "bodies,"
    • ockl should represent brands (faces,)
    • ockl have product related to the brand
    • a given product should be tracable to a single company
    • from there, … (workplace conditions, ....)
    • standardization of the means of putting in RATINGS
      • reputation
    • identity of person who's saying it, the ratings, metrics, ...
    • for data w/o ontology, get:
      • key,
      • human text description / review
      • quantifiable rating if possible
  • semantic wikipedia
  • consumerium
  • Dara O'Rourke "didn't quite buy into" dots Alo Novo system
  • Greater Good
References:
  • AloNovo.com: e-commerce website, founded by Oracle guy, lots of
greenlike people
  • Grass Commons: that's the name of Ethan & Lewis
  • OCKL: Open Consumer Knowledge Language
  • NICK: that's the network of people and ideas and computers advancing
the Network of Integrated Consumer Knowledge
  • SBRS:
  • LEED: leadership in energy & environment design
  • USGCB: United States Green Building Council
  • Open Bibliograhpy, Open Reviews, … Physics teacher, wrote free
content books on physics starting with newtonian - Bruce Eckel? Bryce Harrington Lion Kimbro
  • Wordpress plugin, microformat, for book reviews
  • ESW wiki: plainly written semantic web explanations
  • Dara O'Rourke: professor at Berkeley, environmental / consumer
information systems - prototype barcode scanner
  • Consumerium Project: greater NICK community
  • greatergood.com: charity shopping; ask for "Brad" or contact via "Lion
Kimbro"
  • bookmarklet
LABOR ONTOLOGY ========================================
  • we have fragments
  • how organized are we?
  • identify the hierarchical part
  • we can do it
  • Mark Dilley setup the Skype call between Lion Kimbro & the other guy
Mark's Ontology:
  • when created
  • local union
  • state
    • name
    • main office location post office's address
    • parent affiliation FOAF organization
    • national affiliations
    • union size
    • workplaces
  • identified major parts
    • People
    • Workplaces
    • Locals
    • Organizations
    • Jobs
    • Sector
    • Contract
    • Grievance
    • Arbitration
    • Strike
  • "I don't know what the appropriate paranoia level is for a union
organizer in the United States." Lion

LOCAL NAMES ========================================

  • Lion should make a 2 minute movie of the system.
  • Lion re-opens
SERVERS ========================================
  • Shared Server - virtual servers - $30/month - Grass Commons website -
mostly static
  • data processing in office - suck down big % of Amazon product database
    • in process: putting together big database server for crunching
  • at some point: want websites that are more data intensive than will
work on low end shared server
  • we don't want to become ISP, dealing with security, power, maintenance
  • if move office, don't want to have to worry about transfer
  • we want a server cooperative, because needs are sporatic
  • interested partners: Portland State, Oregon State, IBESI (Brandon)
    • Mark Dilley has union connections w/ servers
  • Grass Commons
  • Coral - cooperative of universities - rapid cache of images
    • like Akamai?
  • how do you configure the server?
    • OS
    • who gets access to it? (physical access)
    • partitioning?
    • virtual servers, or one big server?
    • Apache configuration?
    • distribute responsibility of being on-call
  • beeper duty
  • colocating $100-$200/month
  • who is taking care of the CS departments services?
  • What is the benefit of physical access to a machine?
    • "if we can get bandwidth and location for free..." (great!)
    • are we just erroring towards too much control?
    • "other big clients had put faith in us,..."
    • you can try lots of configurations with physical access to the
machine
    • RAID configuration
    • you mess w/ kernel, mess stuff up, reboot, there's no Internet,
… now what? (install from CD)
    • or you get your SSH locked out
    • or you're hacked
  • server coops, dedicated, … (options, options)
  • distributions
    • Brandon: red hats, always from source, wants to use yum, ...
    • Lewis: Debian guy, debian package management is great, aptitude (apt)
  • Cecil, in last e-mail: bought case, motherboard; 3 power-supply, "quad
Xeon," 4 hot swap scsi bays, 32-64 gigs of RAM, $400, CPU's $1,000/each
    • motherboard would be $400-500,
    • case would be $600-700, incl power supplies
  • grid vision
Contacts:
  • Robin Green (greenrd)
  • Slimy.com (Beth Coleman)
References:
  • Choral (or Coral?)
  • Akamai
  • the Katrina guys system administrators who refused to leave
  • virtual software mirror RAID- "md admin" "evm enterprise volume
management"

HOOZE.com ========================================

  • nascant idea
  • 1st big service running on new server
  • "who owns what?" "Who's is it?"
  • community participation to put it together
  • knowmore.org hip hop & poetry tour
    • interesting advertising strategy
    • playing tomorrow in Seattle
  • social reward for publishing to Hooze?
  • can we just do it as a wiki?
    • unstructured data is a problem...
    • but in a wiki, other people can revise the data
  • rumors, ...
  • reputation economy?
    • people who put in lots of verified data: weigh heigher
  • Mark Dilley: bottlenecking, because people have to work around the
software

References:

  • "They Rule"
  • Colombia School of Journalism, for Media Corporations
  • alonovo.com
  • buyblue.org (?)
  • knowmore.org
  • 2people.org - Phil Mitchell - sustainable shopping, social networking
  • Disinfopedia, Sourcewatch
============================================================ WIKI VANNING 10:35 AM 2005-10-21 ============================================================

>>http://recentchangescamp.org/ RECENT CHANGES CAMP ========================================

  • Places we could have it:
    • Portland State CS department - big room for sessions, sleep on the
floor - Ward & Brandon - gym auditorium - need lots of chairs
  • theme:
    • "Organizing & Integrating Social Software Culture" ..?
    • Tools for Self-organizing
    • Edit this world
    • Social Software
    • Social Wiki
    • DIY Future
    • Online & Meatspace Self-organizing
    • The Fleshosphere
    • Cooperatives
    • Cybertron 2006!
    • "Sunir's got the Speed, but Sunir's got the Size"
    • Co-labs
    • Cooperative Laboratories
    • Taking Wiki to the Next Level
    • Power-up Wiki!
    • The Wiki World
    • Wiki for the Rest of Us
    • Wiki for non-Cyborgs
    • World Wide Wiki
    • Wiki Culture
    • Culture of Programming
    • Social Engineering
    • Human Experimentation
    • Designing People
    • Communications Design Conference
    • A Wire In The Head
    • Follow Design
    • Communications & Documents
    • Wiki Integration
    • Integrating Wiki
    • World Domination 2006
    • Communication Pathways
    • Bringing the Borg
    • Wiki Holism
    • Users & Developers
    • Fairies, Spirits, & Wiki
    • How to take the Wiki out of Wiki
    • How to take the Icki out of Wiki
    • Taking the Icki out of Wiki
    • A Wiki in your Brain
    • Nicki Wic
    • Edit This Self
    • Wiki for Local Global
    • Living La Vida Local
    • A Conference for Fuckers
    • A Future of Wiki
    • A Wiki Future
    • Communicating with Wiki
    • Markup Lift
    • MarkupLift
    • MarkUpLift
    • Communications Design
    • Communication Walk
    • WikiComm
    • Reworking Comm
    • It Aint all Just Broomsticks & Cauldrens any more
    • Reworking the World
    • Reworking Wiki
    • Recent Changes The Wiki Future
    • Recent Changes the Future of Social Software
    • Recent Changes Reworking Wiki
    • The Future is Up to Me
    • The Future is Up to Us
    • Recent Changes The Future is Up to Ted
    • Recent Changes "It's better than *****."
    • Freaky Wiki People
    • Wiki Naked
    • Sex & Wiki
    • Drugs, Sex, & Wiki
    • Sex in the Wiki
    • WikiSex
    • Sex, sex, sex, Wiki, Sex, Sex, Spam Sex, Sex, Spam, & Just Sex.
    • Enlarge Your Wiki
    • Is your Wiki too small?
    • Recent Changes Enlarge Your Wiki
    • Did you wiki ever dribble when you wished it had shot?
    • Wiki all night long.
    • Wikitas - Banditos of Wiki
    • Sociowikiopaths
    • All Wiki Long
    • Recent Changes Wiki Past and Future
    • Everyone's Working for the Wiki-End
    • Recent Changes: Expect More Pay Less?
    • I Used to be a 99# Wiki-ling
    • Wiki-wiki-ting-wiki-wiki-ping.
    • Habla Wiki
    • Wiki is Cheap
    • Cheap Cheap Wiki
    • Wiki Sucks
    • Hating Wiki
    • Are you a Player, or a Wiki Hater?
    • What happens in Wiki, STAYS in Wiki
    • Tired of Wiki-ing along?
    • Recent Changes: The Wiki Now, and Wiki Next
    • Wiki On, Dude
    • Recent Changes: Girls Allowed
    • Recent Changes: Ladies Night
    • Recent Changes: Women Get in Free!
    • Recent Changes: Putting the People in Wiki
    • Recent Changes: People, People, Wiki, People
    • Living Wiki
    • Recent Changes: Wiki Cross-polination
    • "The Birds & the Wikis"
    • 273% Better than Blogs
    • Improve Your Wiki Life!
    • "Come All Ye Pointy Head Faithful"
    • "We will we will wikify you"
    • Recent Changes: Get A Clue
    • Need Assimilation? WIKI!
    • Adventures in Self Organization!
    • It's not just Self-Organization, it's your Life
    • Recent Changes: Your Wiki, or your Life!
    • Take my wiki, please!
    • Steal this wiki!
    • Power up!
    • Power, Freedom, Wiki
    • The Wiki Way of Life
    • Wiki Has a Posse
    • Recent Changes: "Integrate sounds better than assimilate."
    • New Strength
    • Organizing Self-Organization
    • wiki developers, artist community, labor people, process artists
  • We can invite people to collaborate. Then, before they realize they'll
never come up with one- AHA! We've GOT them!
  • Statements about what this is supposed to be about, what we hope will
happen.
  • Brandon:
    • I want my pointy heads to come, and mingle with my programmers.
    • Forming trust.
    • Seeing the web of trust starting. Key signing.
  • Ted:
    • I want people to have an Experience in Open Space.
    • I want code to be written, ''during'' the conference.
    • I want social aspects work to move forward
    • WORK happening - ContentOverCommunity
    • "It's about the work."
    • Technical, and non-technical.
    • online & offline self-organizing
    • I want connection to be clear between wiki & your life
    • Lewis: (what does that mean?)
      • Ted: You don't have to send something to an authority and wait for
it to happen.
      • Empowerment.
      • Realizing our own power.
      • Not needing to wait on an authority.
      • In a wiki: You just change it yourself.
      • Power to Organize.
      • Freedom to Organize.
      • The Freedom to Add Value.
  • Lion:
    • I want to see standards & specifications.
    • I want to see people talking about the future.
    • I want people to know about FOAF, Semantic Web stuff.
    • People see wiki in larger communications environment.
    • Shared Vision for the future to emerge
    • Stories & Narratives to support that
    • The Importance of structured & easily scrapable Metadata
    • The relationship between wiki & the semantic web
    • Structured data in wiki
    • PICA & technical organizing, standards bodies
    • the future through Wiki Glasses
  • Ethan:
    • promote NICK
    • relating out to real-world problems
    • attached to social concerns
    • future, things Lion was talking about
    • learn about what's going on in different spheres
    • YOU GOTTA HAVE MUSIC!
      • bring guitars, CDs, etc.,.,
  • Lewis:
    • collect success stories
    • the carrot
    • map of spectrum of existing social software
  • Collective:
    • Artistic or marketing community.
    • Invite those people, artistic talent.
    • Ask artists what they need.
    • '''Producing artifacts.'''
  • Open Space
    • How is schedule made?
    • (Opening the circle, putting the notes on the page)
    • (Facilitator should indicate session can be about coding, writing,
conversation, etc., and that people can/should mark them)
  • Internet, power, making sure people can connect.
    • Projectors good too
    • Enclosed rooms, just for coding
  • Making sure we have rooms, but open and enclosed
  • Open questions, we need more information
    • What do we need for programming?
    • What do we need for artists, drawing?
    • What do we need to produce artifacts?
    • The proceedings, (or maybe "the preceedings?")
  • Shared File Server!
  • Repository for check-in, check-out.
  • Downloads ready, pre-setup configuration process & help
  • Standard platform for cybernetic communication.
    • LTSP terminals - Portland "Free Geek"
References:
  • Portland "Free Geek" may make terminals available
LABOR FUTURE ========================================

Labor markets:

  • assimilate or subsidize?
  • oil markets concentrate money in a few hands
  • moving to alternative energies
  • idea: people will be employeed by alternative energy work
  • using energy to move things around we'll feel that expense
  • efficient housing, reshaped cities
  • transition from oil based economy, farming nearby, ...
  • current system is highly centralized
  • labor/energy proportions will change
  • relative cost of labor will go down, as true cost of energy is
realized
  • more competition, less consolidation (why?)
    • look at other markets: anti-trust, (forces competition, ...)
    • local research, local competitive
    • branding / loyalty / trickery will play less a role
    • more information means we can be smarter about moving & processing
stuff
      • ex: instead of taking the cow from A to McDonald's closest
slaughterhouse, we can take the cow from A to the closest-to-A slaughterhouse which McDonalds doesn't necessarily own
      • "logistics is getting easier" Wallmart, McDonalds make money
because they have logistics on their side
    • you'll be able to buy from someone with 2 or 3 cows
  • "We'll need to be Internet-literate, but not necessarily a techie." -
"Read a book, not necessarily an author."
    • people will be performing new energy related tasks, and city related
manual tasks, and transformation to cybernetic economy, …
    • people will need to plug in to the cybernetic / Internet economy
    • niches, long tail work will be developing
  • Industrialization led to centralization, but
  • Research & Development will go to creating solutions with local scale
    • you can do materials & science research that is focused on local work
    • micro-shipping
  • IBESI: R&D cooperative
    • instead of paying Intel to give us a chip, we find related projects,
and we pool our money to pay for the developers, and then ship the plans to our fabs

EPC ========================================

  • Electronic Product Code
  • tied in with RFID stuff
  • UPC is current
  • EAN: "European Article Numbering"
    • bar code, with extra digit
    • 1st 2-digit country code
  • UPC & EAN
    • UPC - 6 digit company prefix, (the "brand")
    • Legacy stuff makes UPC codes a little messy
    • Product Class - "shirts, ..."
  • EPC, the next generation:
    • 96 bits
    • brand, product, but ALSO: unique id for each product instance
    • EVERY SINGLE PRODUCT will have a ''unique identifier''
  • Plug EPC into the NICK.
  • Every can of coke will/can have a unique identifier.
  • Initially, all data will likely be proprietary.
  • Will people have transparency as a value?
    • Word 2006 XML file format
  • Some companies will publish information to show the good they have
done.
  • Consumers need to find out it is possible to get more information.
    • Consumers need to get angry about bad things happening.
  • ''Some'' sympathy for companies that want to conceal information.
  • Concealing may cost more than revealing, though.
  • There ''is'' a system in place for tagging items.
  • "Cradle-to-cradle" - "the waste is food"
    • Materials are gathered, assembled, maintained, so it can be fixed.
    • Very sophisticated recycling.
    • A couch that you could compost in the garden.
    • Design problem- understanding the life cycle.
    • Understanding the life history of an object, of artifacts.
Actors:
  • EAN: European Article Numbering
  • UPC: Universal Product Code
CLINTON GLOBAL INITIATIVE ========================================
  • tables of 8, 1 facilitator typing in stuff that happens, next actions,
etc., etc.,.
  • "theme teams" - collect all the feeds and put together proceedings,
identify quotes, prepare artifacts for reflection
  • back channel to add ideas for introverts (aka polite folks)
  • overflow channel for all
Actor:
  • Ruth Ann Prange coordinator
  • America Speaks facilitators group
  • John Abby - wants to keep us in touch with process artists
  • Ashley Cooper - who was explaining this to us
IMAGINED CASCADIA, LUNCH CONVERSATION ========================================
  • Ken Wilbur working with Academia, trying to get ideas there
  • Integrating
REFERENCES:
  • Ken Wilbur Integral
TWO PEOPLE (2people) ========================================

(howdy, Phil!)

  • "Dashboard" for the 21st century
  • How do you categorize and catalogue the sustainability movement (?)
  • psychology of ignorance, disempowerment, barriers to taking action...
  • "toolkit"
  • building community, making person-to-person connections
  • raise consciousness between 2 people in a strong way
  • ...in proportion to the craziness of what's going on
  • natural inclination: think about what's in front of you, step aside
from long term stuff in background that is important
  • footprint reduction - a task to collab on - building community at the
same time
  • restructure political mechanism for sustainability
  • "clearly, somethings broken in our political system"
  • strengthen democracy
  • more urgency
  • biggest earth problems: mass extinction, resource crises, toxins,
water scarcity, nitrogen polution, …
  • ecosystems are complex systems and we don't understand how they work
  • if you push too far, they are likely to reorganize, find another state
  • educate: "we are flirting with possibility of ecological collapse"
  • "who do you start with? low hanging fruity."
  • "we need to empower these people to treat these issues with the
urgency they deserve"
  • connecting people with their neighbors
  • "give these issues the urgency they deserve" - "every day"
  • 4 key commitments
    • educate yourself
    • deal w own footprint (incl work, church, home, ...)
    • be visible, vocal, in daily life
    • find some other way to participate in community
      • it doesn't end w your commitment
  • face-to-face
  • commons (like wikispace, with structures, different types of pages)
  • dashboard (organizing your next actions, ...)
Wiki >>http://recentchangescamp.org/ Recent Changes Camp
  • People need places to stay
  • FooCamp style: camp out
  • camping in Portland
  • February 2006? April 2006?
  • invite Wikipedia people, invite OOPSLA guys (Dirk,)
  • Portland Japanese garden? But probably not a conference garden...
  • OpenSpace requires lots of spaces
  • Portland OSDL, Intel, get as a sponsor
  • get a wiki up as soon as possible
  • place, date
  • crunch
  • GOOD CONVERSATION WITH DIRK before crunch
Position as _a big meetup._
  • !Promote WikiSym! !Promote WikiMania!
helmut ward eugene sunir ward lion ted beat-doebli

Vernor Vinge

Bookworm, Run!

Cookie Monsters

Shockwave Rider

NonviolentCommunication

how to get a quality of connection amoung people so everyone is wanting something that is working for everyone.

two people seeing each other on opposite sides, how can we see them sitting next to each other.

>>sucks and rocks - compound being stuff :-)

nvc is a process among many. many of the little peices I may have seen before, but fit together here nice, and enough of the right pieces together to make a gestalt. theory, practice and community/network (through which i've met many very cool people)

11:30pm on dead dog leg of wikivanning, no time to go there, but can give bits.

as a network, or experiece using the process can see things happening here.

assumption that anything, does says thinks is a postive thing. exp. killing for respect, can understand respect. positive motivation (need) that I can connect with, I can find some way to understand the postive motivation that it comes from as a given. intentional point of view and is a need.

why is someone doing x? if I can't understand, dig for it.

in practice, do that practice, why did that person say that? look for the needs to understand why they say. maybe first don't know, but say why?

ohhh, I can humanize the person. sense of real wonder for that person to see what that thing is the person going for? what is the real motivation for a person going for it.

empathy and expression.

when I listen for the postive motive - empathy.

then express, not "hand me that plate of food", rather "I am hungry, hand me that plate of food if you please."

when we reveal the need that motivates our request it's more likely the other person will see our humanity, be in empathy with us.

as a listener you have the job of being in empathy - one way is to listen for their positive motivation. guess it to them.

(if you don't want to listen, then maybe *you* need empathy first)

as a talker try to reveal that root positive motivation.

4 step model

observation

feeling

need

request

observation - why did you say so loud that I forgot to do the dishes, rather than why were you jumping on me, then I defend myself.

observation of facts. as close as possible.

feeling - some say people have too much feelings, should be logical. some say the other way. missing the point. feelings are an alert to see what needs are up, if I am feeling quiet, then my need for peace is probably being met, if I am excited maybe my need for power is being met, etc… what needs are alive in us. whole purpose to go to feelings of needs is to be real. are my needs being met, the real stuff here. most alive when you can understand the needs of yourself and others.

request, proactive thoughtful, what do you want? ask questions - eg reflection. like observation, you want something concrete, specific, doable.

learning by experience rather than intellectual learning, own the perspective ratehr than knowing about.

helpful to use the language even if corny, to get used to be in these mind patterns.

getting heard is an important need.

simpsons - milk beer example.

one important thing, vulnerabilty to expose the humanity in others and yourself to create the kind of connection where everyone wishes well for everyone.

ted and lion conversation example/practice.

saturday morning 10/20/05 ''um, Saturday is 2005.10.22''

Bright green wiki from world changing hosted by social text: >>http://www.socialtext.net/brightgreen/index.cgi

google has a huge influence where the rest of the net itself and the software specifically is available in a much more open way

snip snap images very difficult - if you (as developer) believe it's not okay to display images that live elsewhere, why not let us put a link to an image that then automatically creates a copy here (saving the original source link for reference purposes)?

Ursula K. Le Guin The Left Hand of Darkness

On Saturday, October 22 we picked up TomAtlee

Anarchist community where everyone has the same name

Yoism vs Wikipedia

  • Open Source Religion
  • Someone hacked yoism.org, only a note about the hack and nothing else
    • suppositions about monotheistic crackers
    • page on wikipedia came under review
    • deadly thing … no sources
    • wiki police didn't like it
    • discount anyhone who isn't an author
  • Glorified vision of wikipedia
  • now seeing the underside of it
  • Systems that are creating it
  • Wikipedia page got deleted today or yesterday
  • How do you feel about these delete decisions?
    • Evolutionary salon entry
    • Too confused with the system
    • Brianism
  • Encyclopedia of Religions ...
Ted: You're not supposed to write your own biography, you're not supposed to write about your own organization

Tom: They did refer to the only article on yoism (Boston Globe) … no independent verification

Ted: Humanist movement work was deleted, now it is back in

Deleted for copyright violation

After something is deleted there is an appeal process … another step

Free speech and open source advocates (Lion, Brandon, ...)

Open source mechanisms should be tracking emerging things as well as well established

Bigger issue … standard of importance

Subjective standard

Are you willing to review an article to consider whether it is important? Randomly selected for votes.

Standards of importance:

  • How many people know about it (de facto)
    • only a few people knew about the WTC … but very important
  • Community of users decide
  • Publish attacks
  • How interesting is it to the wikipedia users
  • How significant does it seem to be as an emerging phenomenon
    • first open source religion … significant despite asshole religion
  • current/historical impact (pervasiveness)
  • significance, portential
  • interesting or engaging
wikipedia hat
  • not our job to make something popular … just to index it
  • letting the long tail have importance
  • quality of encyclopedia
  • guarding the attentional resources of what people see
  • standards are a moving target
  • policies are fluid
  • signal to noise, don't want to exhaust the community peer review resources
  • jury can do whatever they want
  • principles rather than rules
  • click a button that says I'd like to participate in reviewing
  • randomly reviewing articles
  • see these 5 principles (no more than 5) at the top (outset of the page review process)
  • moderation, meta-moderation
  • anyone could mark a page for deletion
  • randomness
  • merge different from delete in that content not lost
  • administrators have capacity to use "immediate delete" in certain instances
moderation and meta-moderation (slashdot and amazon … ebay does not)
  • overlay moderation system on top of systems like wikipedia
  • possible problems: attracting users, affecting administrators
  • important because of capacity of reputation systems to bubble up important subjects
  • everyone screaming at town council meeting vs. work of selected delegates
  • randomness in the reputation economy via volunteers
  • benefit of randomness may be diminished in arenas like consumer information where some expertise is desirable.
  • work that goes into wikipedia enormous and varied, randomness might take away contributors' feeling of freedom
  • appeals process is current metamoderation
  • accomplishment … pervasiveness
  • interesting but not important
Evolutionary Salon
  • Bios and photos
    null null null null null null null null null null null null null
        null
          null null null
            null null null null null
              null
            1. Recent Changes Camp
            null null null null null null null null null null null null null
        null
      null null null
    null null null null null
null
  • debriefing after WikiSym workshop
  • identified need to address interests of academics and beyond in future seminars
  • organized around all things wiki
  • bringing together labor, process arts, pointy heads, techies...
  • connecting communities through social software
  • wanting a center/focus
  • social technology
  • story of wiki conference and need for open space very compelling
  • how did we get here and why is this happening?
Adin Rogovin: adin@trimtab.net Has contacts with process people, trying to create collaborative dialogue scene in portland

Care-Centered Change

Spirit/Activism/Process

  • chart of people exploring these things:
  • one circle (left) consciousness
  • one circle (right) systems:
activists
  • overlap = process
>>http://RVWC.org Rogue Valley Wisdom Council
2 comments (by MattisManzel, MarkDilley) | post comment
see also:
snipsnap-search Recent Changes OpenSpace RecentChangesCamp
BrandonCsSanders johnabbe snipsnap-notfound TedErnst
Wiki-based Software Do... Panels and Demos Frank Fuchs-Kittowski,... WikiVanning
Blue L... majchrzak BOFs LionKimbro
Tutorials Kouichirou Eto, Satoru... config Wiki APIs

Links

Program Overview
Invited Talks
Paper Track
Panels and Demos
Workshops
Tutorials
Social Events
WikiSym 2006

Recently Changed
Recent Changes

Logged in Users: (0)
… and 2 Guests.

Corporate Sponsors
google_logo

Formatting Help
See snipsnap-help.

Subscription
Recently Changed

Copyright (?) 2005 by the contributors. Contents provided under the Creative Commons BY-SA license.
Contributions welcome, attribution should go to wikisym.org and the respective authors.